furnace exhaust killing plants

A recuperator is a gas-to-gas heat exchanger that is installed on the furnace exhaust that preheats incoming Is this a high-efficiency furnace with a small (2 inch) plastic vent pipe, or a standard efficiency furnace with a large (4 inch) metal exhaust? Two types of heat recovery systems that are commonly used with industrial furnaces are recuperators and regenerators. It grows in USDA zones 4 through 9 and grows to 3 to 6 feet tall and wide. Click here to use the chatbox to speak with one of our technicians.No in-home service calls. Make the panel a decorative part of your garden design and folks wont even know you have a vent there. I do not smell it in the house, and can only smell it when the furnace is running and I am outside. This is added to the greenhouse at night when moisture levels are already high and can condense out on the cold glazing surfaces and drip on the plants. Carbon monoxide (CO), an odorless, colorless gas that can cause sudden illness and death, is produced any time a fossil fuel is burned. Initiallyonly open flowers abscised, then buds began to abscise. This will likely cause one greenhouse to pull in contaminated exhaust from the other. Russ Chapman from that firm points out that flue gas recuperators are generally restricted to about 1800 F flue gas temperatures. The Center for Disease Control and Prevention has some excellent information on carbon monoxide poisoning at their website, including fact sheets and other useful leaflets. Repairs should be made as soon as possible. I had a "plume diverter kit" fitted to my vent. Follow Up: struct sockaddr storage initialization by network format-string. Also, greenhouse heaters need to be maintained so that the heater itself is running properly and the distribution tube, vent stack, ventilation louvers and fuel line are all functioning correctly. So, Mr. Einstein, tell me and the other responders before me here that apparently not know the difference? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Need a picture or better description of what the vent looks like. Use indicator plants near heaters or commercially available indicator tubes to warn of excess levels of pollutants. An early symptom of CO poisoning is headaches, but can be accompanied by dizziness, weakness, upset stomach, vomiting, chest pain and confusion as poisoning becomes more extreme. 2 diesel oil, wood, or some alternative fuel type, the same rules apply. You are inGeorgia. However, there are a few other health-related issues that can be caused by your heating system: If the unit is not regularly cleaned, then it can become home to various bacteria and fungi (the HVAC system can also harbor mold). Carbon Monoxide will kill a household (humans too) swiftly. Why do academics stay as adjuncts for years rather than move around? Providing that the heaters are not unvented, often the leak is due to an old, worn out heater with cracks in the heat exchanger or fine holes that formed in the exhaust pipe between the heater and the greenhouse wall or roof. I have noted plant injury symptoms more often in plastic greenhouses compared to glass greenhouses due to the airtight nature of poly-greenhouses. Another scenario is that he may not have tested a heater since last winter and will find that it doesnt work. Photo source:www.repotme.com. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Read: Is It Worth Getting A High Efficiency Furnace? Unfortunately, even the furnaces that are highly efficient arent able to combust the gas entirely. To avoid ethylene injury, greenhouse heaters need proper ventilation and intake of fresh air from the outside. 1. See all author stories here. Why Mitsubishi Mini Split Making Clicking Noise? Plants not exposed to ethylene (A). In theory, the combustion of gas should generate only water vapor and carbon dioxide. These detectors are small badges or tags that can be worn on your person or placed in the greenhouse environment. WebDuring very cold and windy weather the screening collects ice, blocking the vent and causing a furnace shutdown. Tomato plants are very sensitive to certain pollutants found in the exhaust from fossil fuels. If the system has been installed correctly and is operating right, then these gases will be expelled out of your house through the ventilation system. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. Tankless Water Heater Exhaust Killing Plants By Andy Johnson | November 26, 2015 0 Comment [post_title] $1184.00 Description: Estrada cited a recent report from the federal electricity commission on plans to build new carbon plants, a tankless water heater, ruining their livelihoods and even killing residents. If we take a 30' x 100' double poly greenhouse and maintain inside temperature at 60 F on a 0 F night for a 12 hour period, heating with unvented propane or kerosene heaters would add about 22 gallons of moisture to the air and heating with natural gas would add about 16 gallons. Any thoughts? They therefore make good indicator plants. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. I'm out of here. Many people go out of their way to build or purchase CO2 systems for tents. These fuels are advertised as clean-burning. First and foremost, vent all burners to the outside. Esperanza grows in USDA zones 8 through 11 and originates in the hot, dry deserts and forests of northern Mexico. Search Products And Discover New Innovations In Your Industry. So, be on the lookout for ethylene symptoms and fix the problem before its too late. It has a heat value of from about 950 1050 Btu/cu ft. Hasn't damaged the shrubbery, but I do need to keep the shrubs trimmed low enough that winter snow won't block the exhaust and intake. And even if screening is installed, it will corrode into rust flakes within a year or two. We have ferns and hostas growing happily in front of it now. Landscaping Network: Hiding Garden Eyesores, University of Florida IFAS Extension: Florida-Friendly Landscaping Ideas: Top 5 Drought-Resistant Shrubs, Missouri Botanical Garden: Plumbago Auriculata, Fine Gardening; Ephedra Equisetina (Bluestem Joint Fir), Fine Gardening: Euphorbia Antisyphilitica (Candelilla), U.S. Department of Energy: Maintaining Your Air Conditioner, 9 drought-tolerant plants for any outdoor space. The gas is then directed through the flue pipe and safely vented out of your house. Some plants, especially those with skinnier leaves, are especially sensitive to low humidity. They usually have to work on the exact same atmospheric pressure to operate correctly. Levels as low as 0.01 ppm can create symptoms such as malformed leaves and flowers, stunted growth, bud abcission, epinasty and flower senescence. These chemicals can damage plants. Carbon monoxide can lead to worker illness. Note: My experience is in the UK where terminology differs from that used in the US. Even if paybacks are in the two-to-three year range, the long-term savings are worth it., Energy Solutions Center Info on Furnace Heat Recovery. We had the vent relocated a few years ago due to some construction we were doing and the same thing happened in both locations. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Using gas chromatography, the air samples can be assessed for ethylene levels and other hydrocarbons such as methane and propane, which is helpful in discovery of leaks in gas supply lines and leaks in the heat exchangers. Unvented heaters can be fired with natural gas, propane or kerosene. yea, king of the bad ideas, let it go from your mind, never to be thought of again. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. Cape leadwort (Plumbago auriculata), which is also called cape plumbago, is a small evergreen shrub that grows in U.S. Department of Agriculture plant hardiness zones 8 through 11. Peace. It both protects the plants from the blast and collects any lint and keeps it from view. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. The combustion process for both natural gas and LP gas are very similar. Is furnace exhaust dangerous? Cold air blowing directly on plants often strips it of its moisture. No appointments. Tankless Water Heater Exhaust Killing Plants By Andy Johnson | November 26, 2015 0 Comment [post_title] $1184.00 Description: Estrada cited a recent report from the federal electricity commission on plans to build new carbon plants, a tankless water heater, ruining their livelihoods and even killing residents. Consider using a laundry dryer vent hose as a fresh air intake. Related article:Is Your Home More Humid Than it Should Be? We can look at the crop and obtain air samples to verify if ethylene is the problem. Two types of heat recovery systems that are commonly used with industrial furnaces are recuperators and regenerators. One of the problems is that carbon dioxide is most effective when light levels are the highest during the day and the carbon dioxide is mainly produced at night when the heater operates the most. So, if a tester reads less than 1%, all that means is that there is under 10,000 ppm of ethylene. To keep small plants safe, protect them with glass. I'm buying a new Trane S9V2 furnace. If I can revive it or plant new I'll either add a slight angle to the exhaust or wrap the holly in burlap to protect it and see how that works. Also, call your furnace maintenance firm to inspect the unit in question. Incomplete combustion reduces the amount of heat that is obtained and increases the amount of pollution. The bush is an excellent indicator of how wide this vent's effect is. Each winter there are several instances of tight greenhouses that have frozen up when the heaters were starved for air and the heat output decreased. If you are looking to get houseplants, considerhardier plants that have bigger, broader leaves. It can also be formed from ripening or rotting plant materials. I kind of thought it would be a bad idea but I'm glad i checked twice. etc. WebIt is a way that we locate leaks when suspected. We can help. all rights reserved, 2023 Coolray Heating, Cooling, Plumbing & Electrical. If any of these symptoms are occurring, it is time to investigate the source of the problem. Evergreen shrubs add year-round color and those with an upright growth habit form a screen for an outdoor air conditioning unit. Another consideration is that some exhaust products inevitably remain in the vessel to combine with incoming combustion air. Two types of heat recovery systems that are commonly used with industrial furnaces are recuperators and regenerators. Especially, if there are gaps in the ductwork, through which unfiltered air can get sucked in. The newest high efficiency heaters have fresh air intake systems as part of the installation kit. WebIt is a way that we locate leaks when suspected. What is the difference between paper presentation and poster presentation? The 14-point pH scale of acidity runs from 0 at the far acidic end to 14 at the far alkaline, or basic, end, with pH 7 denoting a neutral solution. The exhaust system typically uses metal venting, often routed into a chimney stack, to exhaust the combustion gases created in the furnace fire chamber. Thus, many growers will put a young potted tomato transplant into every new growing area they open up each season to test for low levels of the damaging gas. I work for a gas utility and have never heard of combustion gases killing plants, in fact some greenhouses remove there venting in winter to help heat the spaces. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Since I preferred to get rid of the chimney entirely (and did so when I re-roofed), we went with the out-the-side exhaust. Most plants will recover from ethylene injury. Ethylene gas is another pollutant formed during combustion. Tomato plants are very sensitive to certain pollutants found in the exhaust from fossil fuels. According to the U.S. Department of Energy, the recuperator is the most widely used heat recovery device. How To Troubleshoot It? What Does A Pressure Switch Do On A Furnace? Inefficient combustion can emit unwanted and harmful pollutants into the greenhouse that can affect the plants and the people working with them. A conventional natural gas furnace will vent the dangerous combustion gases through a simple vertical exhaust system that is attached to the furnace. In fact, 1 ppm (part per million) of ethylene or carbon monoxide can cause serious damage. 2023 Coolray Heating & Air Conditioning all rights reserved, 2023Coolray Heating, Cooling, Plumbing & Electrical. WebBasically, cold temperatures cause plants to starve. If your window or door is open and the wind is blowing the exhaust fumes back into your house, then its okay to notice a slight gas smell. A regenerator uses two or more vessels or vessel sections containing a high thermal conductivity matrix. A recuperator is a gas-to-gas heat exchanger that is installed on the furnace exhaust that preheats incoming Thanks for sharing! Firebridge, Inc is a combustion engineering firm headquartered in Burlington, Ontario with wide experience in industrial furnace engineering. My high efficiency furnace vents warm (not hot) moist air. The regenerator alternates the hot and cold flows so heat recovery is continuous. The exhaust system typically uses metal venting, often routed into a chimney stack, to exhaust the combustion gases created in the furnace fire chamber. Againmy bad! February 16, 2015. This shrub thrives in full sun and reaches a mature size of 10 to 15 feet tall with a spread of 5 to 10 feet. They are usually placed in the habitable areas (dining rooms, bedrooms, hallways, etc.) How far away from the vent pipe are the shrubs dying? Installation Cost? According to the U.S. Department of Energy, the recuperator is the most widely used heat recovery device. Using gas chromatography, the air samples can be assessed for ethylene levels and other hydrocarbons such as methane and propane, which is helpful in discovery of leaks in gas supply lines and leaks in the heat exchangers. The chances are high that youll find the curved pipes next to the foundation, but, at times, they can be located near the roof. One of the byproducts of combustion is carbon dioxide which can enhance plant growth. You have to make sure that there is no rust developing on your flue pipe as it can lead to holes. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Check out the MSU Agricultural Operations Program! The only thing I would do is rout your dryer vent into the room during the winter. But you should remember that the exhaust from a high-efficiency furnace can be dangerous in two ways. You should inspect and clean the intake and exhaust pipes from time to time. After three days of exposureall flowers and buds had been shed. If you suspect ethylene injury is occurring, contact your local MSU Extension floriculture educator. If you suspect a leaky fuel line, try painting soapy water on the joints and seams and look for bubbling. He notes that items to consider include existing burner construction to determine exposed metal parts and insulation that may have to be upgraded to accommodate higher temperature combustion air and flame temperatures. According to Jim Roberts from Eclipse, in recent years an important improvement in furnace heat recovery is development of self-recuperative burners, such as Eclipses ThermaJetdesign. High humidity can cause mold growth, damage to your homes structures, and more. It is handled as a liquid and contains from 90,000 98,000 Btu/gal. An unvented heater is one that is designed without a flue connection so that the heat and products of combustion are exhausted into the greenhouse. A heater that has been serviced in the fall will probably not be at peak efficiency as spring approaches. This colorless and odorless gas is harmless when breathed in small amounts (thats what we do all the time), but in enclosed spaces, a high concentration of CO can become extremely dangerous. How can I use it? The matrices may be ceramic or metallic. Check for leaks by placing a smoke bomb or furnace candle within the firebox. Hilarious thread. Never allow gases to remain inside the greenhouse. Ethylene in the Greenhouse: Symptoms, Detection & Prevention. The major pollutants that result from burning kerosene are nitrogen dioxide, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and formaldehyde. WebHowever after the second year the furnace exhaust killed the top 1/3 of one holly. Ok so that was a bad idea the only reason i thought of this was back a few years ago i had a grow and i was bringing cool air from the cross pace basement to cool my room and at that time the furnace was also in the basement crosspace. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. WebChoose shrubs that arent likely to grow or spread to an unmanageable size and avoid plants that produce messy berries that may fall into the air conditioner unit where they may cause problems. I don't think it's a bad idea at all. They often can handle temperature changes and dry air better than smaller plants with thin leaves. Chapman notes that smelting in the copper mining industry is an example of an industry starting to move in this direction. But beware of swollen plant leaves or water spots that turn red or brown. But dont increase your homes humidity just to save your plants. One square inch of vent cross section of outside air for every 2,500 BTUs of heater output is recommended. Tom Dudek, Michigan State University Extension, and Randy Beaudry, MSU Department of Horticulture - Unquestionably, heat recovery strategies have huge potential for reducing energy bills and plant emissions. That excellent idea of yours should be considered by tent growers. Once youve established which heat-resistant shrubs are right for you, narrow the choices down by considering the amount of maintenance each will require. Share Improve this answer Follow answered Jun 5, 2014 at 14:18 Steven 27.3k 9 51 86 3 First and foremost, vent all burners to the outside. Peace. It's one thing to clear up a mistake, such as mine, but it's going overboard to start picking when someone is TRYING to help. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. This colorless and odorless gas is harmless when breathed in small amounts (thats what we do all the time), but in enclosed spaces, a high concentration of CO can become extremely dangerous. There are several rules a grower needs to follow to be certain the heating system is beneficial to the bottom line. Check out the MSU Fruit & Vegetable Crop Management Program! We installed a high efficiency furnace several years ago and were told that the exhaust would not harm plants or bushes. Read: Why Furnace Blower Motor Is Making Noise When Starting? :confused: One side I have a black, white and red wire which goes to the plug. Reference to commercial products or trade names does not imply endorsement by MSU Extension or bias against those not mentioned. Sultzbaugh adds, We also need to look at the air-fuel ratio, which will require adjustment., Asked whether existing burner controls can be adapted to the addition of recuperation, Sultzbaugh explains, It depends on the type of control method being used. WebIt is a way that we locate leaks when suspected. Can my Furnace and Water Heater share an exhaust? If the heaters were vented, the moisture would have been exhausted outside along with the flue gases. Although the combustion exhaust itself is clean, the heating process may be producing corrosive or particulate byproducts that could damage or clog a high efficiency heat exchanger such as one with fins. Greenhouse heating is essential to overwinter vegetables in all but the extreme southern latitudes of the U.S. Rather than just keeping plants alive, which can be done at any temperature above freezing, maintaining a temperature set point of 64F or above will help to produce a good yield of high-quality fruit from your greenhouse. In fact, 1 ppm (part per million) of ethylene or carbon monoxide can cause serious damage. Its heat value is about 135,000 Btu/gal. You might want to talk to the installer to see if it could be better positioned as to not damage you plants. You don't have to use all of the exhaust gas, but you could hook up a regulator or just turn on/off the valve that feeds the gas to the plants. However, he also points out that for operators with site emission permits written on a lb/MMBtu basis, recuperation allows the use of more furnace capacity, hence increased productivity. To contact an expert in your area, visit https://extension.msu.edu/experts, or call 888-MSUE4MI (888-678-3464). How to take air samples in the greenhouse to test for ethylene and other air pollutants, Ethylene Contamination: Symptoms andSources in the Greenhouse, Center for Disease Control and Prevention, excellent information on carbon monoxide poisoning, 1998 Childrens Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA). We have ferns and hostas growing happily in front of it now. Is It Worth Getting A High Efficiency Furnace? With tighter greenhouse coverings, especially those with double poly or double walled polycarbonate, heat leaks through the glazing are nearly eliminated. I would agree with Keep it simple stupid, I would call your local gas supplier and have them send out a leakage inspector. She is co-founder of On Fiction Writing, a website for writers. WebDuring very cold and windy weather the screening collects ice, blocking the vent and causing a furnace shutdown. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website. The installer is going to put the PVC pipes about two feet away from a cherry bush, actually midway between the bush and the A/C compressor. Another potential tool for salvaging a significant amount of the heat energy from a furnace exhaust is the regenerator. Ethylene in the Greenhouse: Symptoms, Detection & Prevention. Older type technology using relay logic is not readily adaptable. Thanks for sharing! WebBasically, cold temperatures cause plants to starve. You might want to talk to the installer to see if it could be better positioned as to not damage you plants. That excellent idea of yours should be considered by tent growers. Im afraid I'm going to kill my plants with some kind of bad engine exhaust coming from my furnace. This is generally true if the burner is clean and has been adjusted to top efficiency. At this point, it might be easiest to just accept that you're not going to have a bush there. Even though lower humidity levels may not be best for houseplants, its essential for your health and comfort and helps protect your home from mold, sickness, and damage. Never allow gases to remain inside the greenhouse. Or the lack of oxygen may cause the flame to go out and the burner to shut off, leading to freeze damage. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. I am in the heating and cooling trade and the reason for the plants to die is because the exhaust pipe is probably pointing down which will drie up the soil that they are in. The only inhibitor is scale. He explains, The cost of retrofitting little furnaces is disproportionately higher than one operating at, say, 45 MMBtu/hr or larger, so the economic case is more difficult to make.. 2. Small plants are usually sensitive to cold air, temperature changes, low humidity. How much water do we get? Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? I was basing my response on the title, which suggested furnace exhaust. However, the safety device might not get triggered. His company is working on designs that might allow systems to operate at temperatures as high as 2200 F, but for the time being the limitation still stands. VisitTennessee. Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LP-gas) is obtained from gas wells or as a refinery by-product and consists primarily of propane with traces of proplyene, butane and butylenes. Visit Georgia. 1 cu ft NG + 10 cu ft Air + Flame gives 8 cu ft Nitrogen + 1 cu ft Carbon dioxide + 2 cu ft Water vapor. Ethylene damage seems to be most common on new heaters not installed properly, and on heaters more than six to eight years old. A common problem in many newer greenhouses is that they are very tight. Yes, furnace exhaust does contain carbon monoxide as it is created during the process of burning gas. Two types of heat recovery systems that are commonly used with industrial furnaces are recuperators and regenerators. This partial combustion leads to the formation of various byproducts, starting from nitrogen dioxide and ending with carbon monoxide. First and foremost, vent all burners to the outside. Quentin Tyler, Director, MSU Extension, East Lansing, MI 48824. Insufficient information to make any comment as it is not your old furnace. Can I place a cap on my furnace exhaust to keep rainwater out? If the color of your plants leaves is fading or if the leaves are wilting, it could be because the plant is too close to an air conditioning vent. This article is devoted to understanding the symptoms of ethylene damage on plants and the human symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning both due to faulty greenhouse heating symptoms. This colorless and odorless gas is harmless when breathed in small amounts (thats what we do all the time), but in enclosed spaces, a high concentration of CO can become extremely dangerous. Remember where the pipes exit the building and go outside. Levels are usually highest near the heater and can be diluted by air circulation. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Also, call your furnace maintenance firm to inspect the unit in question. WebChoose shrubs that arent likely to grow or spread to an unmanageable size and avoid plants that produce messy berries that may fall into the air conditioner unit where they may cause problems. and fuel supply lines with leaks. First, an air conditioner blows out hot air as it cools your home, and this heat can kill shrubs that aren't heat-resistant. How To Stop AC Refrigeration Line From Vibrating? A more likely problem is killing a treasured plant with exhaust gases. 3 Natural Ways to Give it the Boot. Few questions: Do I have to use a 4" pipe or I Hello - I have gas furnace in my home - a Lennox 75,000 80% furnace G23 q2/3-75 - with a 5"x 25' chimney liner that was installed in 2000. However, keep in mind that 1% is 10,000 times bigger than 1 ppm. Floriculture and vegetable crops grown in greenhouses that utilize natural gas or propane fueled heaters can be susceptible to ethylene injury according to MSU Extension. There are also CO detectors that are available, often from local hardware stores, for just a few dollars. MSU is an affirmative-action, equal-opportunity employer, committed to achieving excellence through a diverse workforce and inclusive culture that encourages all people to reach their full potential. The exhaust is mainly water vapor and carbon dioxide, but the absolute majority of furnaces also form a wide range of byproducts (particulate matter, nitrogen dioxide, sulfur dioxide, hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, etc. Yes, furnace exhaust does contain carbon monoxide as it is created during the process of burning gas. Make sure the burner flame is clear blue. If it is yellow or orange it needs adjustment. A Burning Question: Ethylene and Sulfur Dioxide Damage in the Greenhouse, Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs (OMAFRA), Leatherwood W.R. and N. Mattson. We'll put this in the "let's not and say we did" category. Bluestem joint fir is extremely heat- and drought-tolerant, and its small size and moderate growth rate make it a good choice for planting near your air conditioner. Put in a new bush away from the vent & leave a gap for the vent or replace the bush with a chair or loveseat, bird bath, sculpture or fountain looking thing. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Instead,make sure youmist your plants leaves every day. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Ray ID: 7a303492bd8d355b You don't have to use all of the exhaust gas, but you could hook up a regulator or just turn on/off the valve that feeds the gas to the plants. All fuel-burning heaters need to be vented with a stack to the outside. I am trying to get the wiring for the blower I have. Choose shrubs that arent likely to grow or spread to an unmanageable size and avoid plants that produce messy berries that may fall into the air conditioner unit where they may cause problems. Cold air blowing directly on plants often strips it of its moisture. So be sure the utility company is prepared with proper equipment to help you. Clearly, energy savings are not always enough. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. A great indicator plant to use for the presence of ethylene is a tomato plant. Let's look a little further at the fuels and the combustion process. In general, in a string of multiplication is it better to multiply the big numbers or the small numbers first? Fortunately, this is usually also the most practical heat to recover and reuse. High Efficiency Furnace exhaust and plants. Natural gas-fired process furnaces are widely used in industry, particularly in applications involving metallurgy, heat-treating, glass and ceramics. Any thoughts? If I can revive it or plant new I'll either add a slight angle to the exhaust or wrap the holly in burlap to protect it and see how that works. Energy reduction equals emission reduction. Make the panel a decorative part of your garden design and folks wont even know you have a vent there.

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