what size lionel transformer do i need

Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. Amperes = VA/Secondary Volts or 40VA/28V = 1.43 amperes. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. But if you already have a 1034 and dont need a whistle button, go ahead and use it. The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! "O" Gauge is what Lionel is today, along with "O27". He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. I will make a note here. Smaller feeder wires are used to bridge the small gap from the bus to the track. I've read that it is good practice to add feeders every 10 sections of track or sothat seems like a lot but I suppose that beats having "dead" spots in the track. Best bang for the buck for command are the Lionel 180W Powerhouse bricks IMO. I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! to run conventional you will need Legacy plus a Powermaster and Powermaster Bridge or Legacy and a TPC 300/400. Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. This is why my wife loves me so. The first is the traditional or classic size, which are the cars that match starter sets. Just not quite as much. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. They give a great deal of power in a single handled transformer, and if you run trains along with another person, it can be more convenient for you to both have a smaller transformer than for two people to huddle around a larger KW or ZW transformer and share its handles. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. Solid wire is preferable as it is much easier to solder to the rails. I went to mth Z1000, jason's train shop has the best price's I have seen for these. When you get DCS, keep the blocks and run the 2 sets off 2 Fixed channels out. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Electric Trains make great power supplies, depending on usage, on a DCS controlled layout. Thanks! Take the hint. Adding more freight or passenger cars [also known as rolling stock] to your set is another way to quickly expand your railroad. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. --I need a station for the train to stop at. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. Effort. If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. HO trains are very durable and are made with high quality parts and pieces to ensure the longevity of the Lionel train brand! All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. Lionel introduced a few LionChief Plus 2.0 starter sets in 2022. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. If they do, follow their recommendations. Needless to say the "Spring into Spring" train show very nearly became unsprung! 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. Hello All: Another simple way of doing it, Only load the transformer to 75% of it's capacity, or take your total load & multiply by 125% for proper transformer sizing. You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. Transformer capacity is rated in KVA (kilo-volt-amperes). This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. If you add a lot of track and find that your train slows down as it gets farther from your transformer, you will need to run jumper wires to the opposite side of your track layout. Number 26 to 20 wire (depending on the length of your bus) will be sufficient for most applications. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. $2799. 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. Three conductor wire is common for household use. I really doubt you will need more than that. The transformer included with your starter set should be adequate to handle a modest expansion of your train set discussed above. Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. 5 years of Classic Toy Trains at your fingertips! For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. Most people start with a pre-packaged train set. These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. And if the power supply does fail, it is best not to repair it on your own. Lionel CW80's can be found for around $50 at Greenberg and other train shows. This is because the demands for power are becoming more than your transformer can handle. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Like tankist stated.It's only running multiple engines that I run into issues. Alternating current (AC) is the preferred power for most O Gauge three-rail trains as well as some two-rail systems in smaller scales. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. If you fried a wire going to the track it may not be a transformer problem. Sell Your Trains Yourself On eBay. Accessories often interact with the train, such as a crossing gate that lowers as the train passes. :-). This means that you will have about.5 volt drop if your train draws 5 amperes. The first Lionel electric trains were powered by wet-cell batteries, which were, of course, dangerous. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! The two types of cars will connect together just fine, but when side-by-side in a train, they may look a bit odd. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. That was before all the technician assemby work was outsourced overseas and they left the poor engineers to fend for themselves. The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct This thing has more power then I will ever need. However, if you begin to add lighted cars, or more than a couple accessories, you may find that your train will not run as fast, or that it will shut off entirely. They are fun to have. Serving these devices with their own dedicated supply will not only allow you to supply them with a proper constant voltage, but it will also free your main power supply to handle the load of the train itself. Theres nothing inherently wrong with them, though I would shy away from the smaller transformers that are less than 75 watts, including the modern CW-40. Transformers are sized by determining the total load required (in amps). Some people even find it fun. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. RemembertheVeterans. Safety first. Ive talked more about the Lionel RW and the LW as well. (8 lights X 20 watts = 160 watts). Price Received. A model railroad train set designed for use in the United States will have a 115V AC 60Hz power requirement. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. If you want a station for your trains to stop at, there are both station platforms [#24159] as well as full sized stations [#14257]. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. Lionel Ready-to-Play is a large sized train that's made to be affordable and easy-to-use for both kids and adults alike. Outdoor railroads are, of course, an exception! First, a few general notes about choosing wire. It has FasTrack connectors on one end and O Gauge track pins on the other. If you make a complete loop of 100 feet with good track joints, you'll have something like .1 ohm from the transformer to the farthest point, using the rule of thumb that most track is something like 16 AWG wire (.004 ohms per foot) and that there are two 50 foot tracks feeding the farthest point from two directions. I can remember a time when a Lionel ZW would set you back $275. Thanks in advance for any information, Mike. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. The house's current is reduced to the required low voltage by Trainmaster Transformers. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. CW80 Transformer. Are you running command or conventional? Older transformers I had this issue with are RW, 1033, KW, ZW.newer transformers were all made by MTH. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. 40-500 50 Watt AC Transformer - 50 Watt AC transformer suitable for . If mixing both non-command as well as command engines, both by the way will run without any thing other than the appropriate transformer, it really depends on the budget. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. Some great beginner accessories are the #12052 Fastrack Highway Signal set, which is a set of highway signals that blink as the train goes by. Hello, I'm new to this site, and completely new to toy trains also - so please pardon my ignorance! They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. Great for learning all you will ever want to know about Lionels track system. Note that when working with specific products, manufacturers will often recommend a wire size and type. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Ive talked more about the KW here. Likewise, if you only want to run one train at a time, you can keep other trains on the track by wiring with blocks, and turning off trains that are not in use. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. Its a good transformer. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. And of course, Lionel also makes lots of figures to populate your town. Ive talked about why here. All members here are welcome to drop in and visit. Classic Toy Trains 5-Year Collection 2015-2019 DVD-ROM. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Traditionally, Lionel trains run on AC but there are exceptions. Most recommend the TPCs over the powermasters The CW 80 will work to begin with. I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. --I wish I had some more cars to put behind the engine. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Best Selling Lionel 1908080 O Gauge CW80 Transformers - Black (4) $147.85 New $110.00 Used Lionel Legacy Powermaster Lnl637146 (13) $134.99 New $90.00 Used Lionel 634120 TMCC Direct Lock-On Transformer - Silver (21) $58.99 New $49.99 Used Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Frankly, its hard to go wrong with either of these transformers, especially at todays prices. Do not use this device if water is present. converting a 2-rail freight car to 2-rail with Atlas trucks, My Triple Level Layout -FREEBIE UPDATE- 3/2/23, Successful Open House Upstate (NY) Model Railroaders, FS: Lionel MPC and modern traditional size rolling stock. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! Just not quite as much. Ill try to find a link to it for you. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. Both are lighted. LGB throttles 51070, 52120 and 52121 will all work with the 50061 and other LGB transformers. I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. Please see our article on Fastrack here for more information. This tool only evaluates common voltages for North America (ie. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. IF the Engineer is the guy that drives the locomotive then theTechnician must be the fireman is this correct? I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. As the kit grows and you start putting in turnouts (or the point switching systems) to move your train from one track to another track, you will not only need more than 1 transformer, you will. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. its the amount of engines you need to worry about, I'm currently running my entire layout on a single DC power supply that came with an Athearn engine/track set. If youre buying a transformer, youll be able to easily find one that a professional refurbished and upgraded with the links I provide below. UpBright 18V AC/DC Adapter Compatible with Lionel O Gauge Fastrack 10" Remote Control Terminal Straight LionChief System Track 6-1923100 HKYF45-180230T-US DC18V 2300mA 18VDC Power Supply Cord Charger. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Most two-rail track systems use direct current (DC). The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. Twin coil machines have a higher current draw when in motion but are also much faster-acting than the motorized versions. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. While those locomotives and their sound systems are designed to operate using conventional transformers like your ZW, digital controllers are needed to activate additional features like special sound effects and coupler activation. This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. I had 3 lionel cw80's and two quit working. If the second digit is 9, it could be either, so be careful when considering one of them. The thing that eats current is a lot of light bulbs on the layout. It's expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. "What size wire should I use?" God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. Wire gauges are coded by their size. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. I've got around 320 ft of track between all of the mainline, sidings, etc and I don't have any problems running my engines anywhere on the layout. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. Its a bargain at that price. It is not uncommon to see 50-year-old transformers still going strong on a model railroad. $7.89 delivery Feb 2 - 6. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. Price Received. what size lionel transformer do i need. Although I am an electrical engineer, I just add stuff until the transformer gets too warm and then I branch off and add another. White and black are common selections. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. I recently read an article/product review in the OGR magazine for the new Lioneltransformerand wassurprisedto learn that not all voltage outputwave-formsare created equal (pure sine wave versus some type of clipped sine wave). But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. Price Received. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. It is best to use at least two different colors for your track wiring (one for each rail). This is where the Lionel transformer comparisons should begin. no it isn't. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. With the ever-increasing amount of small electronics in today's sophisticated models, this protection is more important than ever. Effort. Mike to the forum. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. The polarities can be reversed to change the direction of the train. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! Doug, there's definitely room for the liberal arts approach to the hobby--I have a journalism degree; how I became a computer technician was pretty much an accident. This signifies compatibility with 50 Hertz power. Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. If the system's train transformer is run in Europe with a step-down transformer alone (converting only voltage from 230V to 115V AC at a 50 Hz), it may not operate as intended. [:)]. Get updates and special offers via email from Trains.com brands! * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. HO gauge is very popular because of its size. It was one of Lionel's more venerable postwar products, lasting on the market for 18 years from 1948 to 1966. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. What do I need to do that with? properly wired transformer can handle any amount of track. I have purchased diodes to put into the older transformers to see if this resolves the issue with newer tenders. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . Everyone wanted the two-handled, football-shaped, 275-watt powerhouse that was the ZW. . This is interesting stuff. Serious or fatal injuries may result. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. Of course, the answer to that question depends on many things. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. The modern equivalent is the Lionel CW-80, but frankly I like the old ones better. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. If you plan to just run MTH go with their DCS system if you plan to have a number of different engines or the MTH DCS Remote Commander which is limited to running only one engine at a time. Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet.

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